57. Data Centers in Orbit: How Madari Space Wants to Move Your Data Off the Planet
Available now
-
Available now -
Shareef Al-Romaithi almost became an astronaut. Twice he made it to the final rounds of the UAE's astronaut selection program, and twice he came up short. Instead of walking away from the space sector, he found a different door into it, and that door turned out to be data.
Al-Romaithi is the founder and CEO of Madari Space, an Abu Dhabi startup building a constellation of data centers in low Earth orbit. His pitch is simple: the internet's data problem cannot be solved by building more warehouses full of servers on Earth. It has to be solved by leaving Earth.
The scale of the problem is what makes the idea less crazy than it first sounds. As Al-Romaithi put it, "the global network of data centers, and I believe today we have we are getting close to 12,000 data centers, they emit more carbon than the entirety of airline industry, which is completely shocking." Add in the water used for cooling, water that "once it has been used there's no way to re-recycle," and the environmental case for rethinking data infrastructure becomes hard to ignore.
From cockpit to cosmos
Before any of this, Shareef flew commercial aircraft for Etihad. A setback in his astronaut ambitions pushed him toward a master's degree in space operations, and that program reframed how he saw the industry. Space, he realized, was no longer the exclusive territory of governments and giant contractors. Universities were launching CubeSats, private investors were funding startups, and Earth observation was becoming a commercial business in its own right.
Madari Space launched in 2023, the UAE's self-declared "year of sustainability," with a mission to tie space operations to the country's environmental goals. But the company's ambitions have since expanded into three phases: giving governments and enterprises an off-planet backup layer for critical data, supporting the infrastructure demands of the AI boom, and only then circling back to the original sustainability mission.
What a data center in orbit actually looks like
Forget the image of a glass building floating above the clouds. Madari's first satellite is a 12U cube, roughly ten centimeters per unit, orbiting 500 to 600 kilometers above Earth. "Think of it as Starlink, but instead of internet, we're providing data capacity and data processing," Shareef explained. The long-term vision could evolve into a more centralized hub at higher orbit, and eventually into deep space storage at points that tap into what he calls the cislunar economy.
The first customers will not be individuals uploading vacation photos. They will be governments and large institutions looking for a redundancy layer, a copy of their most critical data sitting somewhere no flood, war, or cyberattack on Earth can reach. Shareef pointed to a telling real-world example: the UAE's central bank was granted a waiver to store data in Sweden as a business continuity measure. Madari's argument is that even that solution is still tied to terrestrial infrastructure, and therefore still vulnerable. "By moving the data to space as a fail-over layer, or as a perhaps third or fourth copy of what you have on Earth, this provides you the assurances that you need as a government."
Radiation, heat, and the hardest engineering problem in the room
Space is not a cooling solution, even though there is no water and no heat there to worry about. It is arguably a harder thermal problem than Earth. "I believe that cooling is still a challenge in space, mainly because you're operating in a vacuum environment. Space is a harsh environment, we're not meant to be there, not us, not our hardware," Shareef said. Madari is developing heat pipes to dissipate warmth into space and building software that limits processing loads to reduce heat generation in the first place.
Radiation is the other major threat, since exposure can corrupt or permanently destroy stored data. The company was preparing a radiation test campaign in Switzerland just days after this conversation was recorded, stress-testing hardware components to understand exactly how much exposure they can survive before failure.
A constellation, not a single point of failure
Madari's answer to nearly every question about risk is the same: decentralization. Rather than one large orbital data hub, the company is building a distributed network of smaller units that communicate with each other using laser links, with data able to migrate autonomously if a single node is damaged or threatened by debris. The same philosophy extends to launch partners. Madari is deliberately working with providers in Europe, Korea, and China rather than relying on a single company, a strategy Shareef frames bluntly: "You always need to have contingency plans, this is for the sake of your success, for the sake of comforting your investors, and of course to ensure your business continuity as you scale your business in the future."
The regulatory frontier
One of the more interesting tensions in the conversation is how laws written for a planet apply once data leaves it. Frameworks like Europe's GDPR were built around the idea that data has a jurisdiction. Orbit complicates that. Shareef's answer leans on cybersecurity architecture rather than legislation for now, including zero trust and zero knowledge proof systems, plus a partnership with a layer-one blockchain provider, so that "even though we have your data, we have no access to it and we don't know what is it."
Low Earth orbit as a stepping stone
Shareef sees this as only the beginning. He described low Earth orbit as a proving ground before humanity pushes further, toward the Moon and eventually a cislunar economy. The UAE is already contributing an airlock to NASA's Gateway station, and Shareef expects data infrastructure to eventually follow humans there too.
Asked what the relationship between humans and space looks like decades from now, his answer was direct: space stops being a frontier for exploration alone and becomes a primary operational sector, one where data centers play a central role.
For Mizter Rad, the through-line connects directly to a conversation with Canadian Space Mining Corporation's Daniel Sax, who made the case that the extreme constraints of space, radiation, temperature, and the total absence of resources, force engineers to invent solutions that eventually solve problems back on Earth. Shareef's answer confirmed the pattern extends even to something as unglamorous as data storage. It's a theme that also echoes conversations about how synthetic biology could one day let people store their genomic data for future use, a topic explored with Andrew Hessel on the show.
The bigger question Shareef leaves listeners with isn't really about satellites. It's about ownership. As more of daily life becomes digital, from medical records to national archives to the outline of a person's own biology, the question of who controls that data, and where it physically lives, stops being abstract. Soon, some of it may be orbiting 500 kilometers over our heads.
_____
This article was produced with the assistance of AI tools. The Mizter Rad Show is hosted by Mizter Rad.
Guest: Shareef Al-Romaithi, Founder of Madari.
Follow Shareef on LinkedIn.
Listen to the full conversation with Shareef on the Mizter Rad Show.
Stay curious, question everything.
Mizter Rad
-
Data Centers in Space: Full Transcript with Shareef Al-Romaithi
The Mizter Rad Show
Shareef (00:00.864)
And not just here on the ground, but in the future on the surface of the moon. I think low Earth orbit is just a stepping stone until we explore deep space, cis lunar economy, and the lunar surface eventually. I mean the moon is a natural satellite that we can take advantage of. And if we can place our data centers there, of course it will require a lot of R&D and a lot of technological advancements, but
The starting point is low Earth orbit.
Mizter Rad (00:38.456)
Welcome to the Mr. Rad Show where I talk to the most interesting global personalities about the future of humanity.
Hello, beautiful humans. Welcome back to the Mr. Rad Show, the podcast where we look 50 years into the future and ask ourselves what is life actually going to look like? Today we're talking about something that sounds like science fiction, but it's actually being built right now. Data centers in space. Your data, your government's data, your country's most sensitive records orbiting above your head, beyond the reach of any government.
Any army, any natural disaster on earth. But before I introduce my guest, I want to take you somewhere first. Close your eyes for a second. If you're driving don't close your eyes. But if you are not, just close your eyes for a second and listen to the following.
News from the Future (01:43.288)
Good evening, I am Mo al-Noor, reporting for Orbital News Network, broadcasting live from Elio Station 7, 480 km above the Pacific Ocean. Our top story tonight: the International Orbital Data Consortium has announced the decommissioning of its final first-generation data satellite, the ODS-1, originally launched in 2027 by UAE startup Madari Space. What began as a payload the size of a toaster oven?
Is now considered the seed of an industry that stores 40% of the world's sovereign national data in orbit, beyond the reach of any terrestrial government, army, or natural disaster. In related news, the Kessler Remediation Authority has confirmed the removal of the 500,000-tract debris object from low Earth orbit, a milestone of the decades-long effort to clean the orbital commons. Critics note that over 700
Thousand objects remain untracked and potentially hazardous. The authorities' chairman called it, quote, a good start, and finally, a lighter note. The city of New Singapore, in geostationary orbit above the equator, has applied to the United Nations for recognition as an independent sovereign territory. Its population of 4,200 permanent residents.
Data engineers, orbital farmers, and what the media now calls sky monks voted unanimously in favour. Earth governments remain, as of this broadcast, undecided. This is Mo al-Noor, Stay Curious. Stay orbital. Good night, Earth. Back to you, Mr. Rad.
Mizter Rad (03:29.55)
Thank you, Mo. That was year 2078. And I know you're thinking, Mr. Rad, what's going on? What the hell? Where am I? Well, relax, beautiful humans. You are exactly where you're supposed to be. We just took a small detour into the future because today's guest is one of those people helping build that future. Now, let me give you some context so that what you just heard makes sense. Right now
As you listen to this, your data is sitting somewhere in a building, probably a giant building full of computers, humming away, consuming electricity like a small city, somewhere in Virginia or Amsterdam or Singapore, maybe actually the three of them combined. And here's the problem we're running out of room, we're running out of energy, we're running out of water to cool these machines.
Between now and 2030, companies worldwide are expected to invest nearly seven trillion dollars building and operating data centers. A single AI data center consumes as much electricity per year as a hundred thousand homes. That's the estimation that I got recently. And the biggest ones, the biggest data centers, use five million gallons of water per day just to stay cool. That is the daily water.
That a thousand families need normally in any territory on earth. So what do you do when you run out of space on Earth? Well, my guest today said you look up my guest, Shareef Al-Romaithi, he's a former Etihad Airline pilot who decided to build data centers in space. He's the founder and CEO of Madari Space, a startup based in Abu Dhabi, backed by the Mohammed bin Rashid Innovation Fund and working
With both the UAE Space Center and the United Nations. The first mission launches in 2027. I know of what you guys are thinking out there are data centers in space that sounds crazy and that sounds insane and like sound science fiction, but I'm telling you something. The same people who said the internet was insane, who said putting a computer in your pocket was insane.
Who said putting a chip under your skin or in your brain we're wrong or we're insane we're wrong actually. Shareef, welcome to the show. How are you, my man?
Shareef (05:58.508)
Very good. Thank you very much for hosting me today.
Mizter Rad (06:01.698)
Handulila, we made it. It's been a while we've been trying to make this call and this recording, and for different reasons we couldn't make it, but I'm glad we are now together. Likewise. Let me start with something very simple, Shareef. I understand you were a commercial pilot and now you're building data centers in space, and that's normally not a career move.
Shareef (06:03.5)
Yes.
Mizter Rad (06:30.475)
What happened? What was that moment or the series of moments that took you from the cockpit to saying, Hey, I'm gonna put data centers into orbit?
Shareef (06:40.888)
Well, the reason why I launched Madari space was as a result of let's call it a failure that I experienced previously in my life that led me into starting my masters in space operations, which was a complete eye opener for me and I decided during my masters to
Establish Madari space with the objective of building data centers in space. back in twenty eighteen and twenty I was applying for the astronaut program with MBRSC and in both applications I reached the final rounds. In fact the last time I applied I was down to the last two candidates. Close but no cigar unfortunately
Mizter Rad (07:33.334)
So you want it to be an astronaut, or what is that exactly?
Shareef (07:36.578)
Yes. So I applied to the local UAE astronaut program, which was an amazing experience going through the selection process. and since I did not make it in both rounds, I was determined that I still would like to enter the space sector one way or another. If it's not by being an astronaut, I wanted to do something else. so I wanted to explore what the options are. and as a result, I enrolled in a master's program in space operations.
And that program opened my eyes to the commercialization of low Earth orbit. The space sector as a domain is no longer run by governments and large corporations. Today we are seeing more and more private investors funding startups, we're seeing universities sending CubeSats. we're s we're seeing more private companies launching Earth observation satellites.
More than ever. so this was an opportunity for me to find a wa the why for to enter the space sector. in twenty three, and that's when we launched the company, it was the year of sustainability. Every year the United Arab Emirates the they focused their initiatives towards a certain goal and that year was the year of sustainability. so my goal was to tie up
Space operations with the initiatives of the UAE. And as a result, as you briefly mentioned, data centers on Earth are extremely energy hungry. They waste a lot of water, they require a lot of energy to keep them cool, and more importantly, they emit a lot of carbon, which was a very valid reason for me to explore the opportunity of building data centers in space. So
It started off as a solution for sustainability, but throughout the years it has evolved to more than that. So it's no longer a sustainability issue, but rather we came up with a different phase phased approach that we are tackling. First of all, as part of phase one, we want to provide the UAE government and private enterprises redundancy and failover layers in space completely.
Independent from terrestrial systems. Should their data on Earth gets damaged or permanently lost for whatever reason, we work with them seamlessly to recover that data since it's being stored in space. Our second phase is of course to address the AI boom and the you know the required infrastructure to support AI applications and inferencing and so on.
And as a third phase, of course, would come the sustainability angle, which was you know the initial focus when we first launched in 2023. yeah, so I would like to also highlight that when we first started in 2023, it was quite a new area of focus. Not a lot of companies were working on such a model, including Madari Space. There were only three companies globally.
Working on this business model. It was us and two US-based companies. Today we are seeing more and more players entering the market. I personally am seeing existing space companies shifting their previous model and focusing on data centers and space, which is a huge validator for what we're building.
Mizter Rad (11:26.976)
Right. That's amazing. Well, congrats on that. But before we go further, Shareef, I wanna when you say data centers in space, I need to stop you right there 'cause I think a lot of people, including me, the first time I heard this, picture some kind of giant glass building floating above the earth or something like this. So what are we actually talking about? Like what does this look like physically?
Shareef (11:52.142)
For Madari, it's more of a constellation. Think of it as Starlink, but instead of internet, we're providing data capacity and data processing. Our idea is to launch a constellation of data centers in low Earth orbit. And this would provide the required capacity for data storage, processing applications, and so on. This model may very well evolve as we progress in our R&D.
Into something much bigger. So perhaps we can have a more centralized hub at a higher orbit, for example, but we would still run our constellation in low Earth orbit. Further down the line, we may even consider offering long term storage at even deep space locations, such as like Lagrange points, which tack taps into the cislunar economy.
Mizter Rad (12:44.506)
Okay, but in this first MVP that you're launching it in next year, yeah. how big is that physical gadget, let's say? How big is that, more or less?
Shareef (12:55.83)
It's a twelve U satellite, and it will be in orbit somewhere between five hundred and six hundred kilometers above Earth.
Mizter Rad (13:04.128)
Is that twelve what?
Shareef (13:05.688)
Twelve U. Twelve U.
Mizter Rad (13:08.206)
What does that mean?
Shareef (13:09.614)
So each U is ten centimeters in length. Think of it as a cube — each U is ten by ten by ten centimeters. So it's twelve of those U cubes, basically.
Mizter Rad (13:19.924)
Twelve U cubes, okay, all right. So let's say you launch these structures up to and then they go up and then what? They go up in the in the first the outer the closer orbit to us, let's say. And then what? Walk me through step by step what actually happens. How does data get to space? And then how does it get processed? If it get processed up there and then
How does it come back down to someone sitting in Amsterdam or in Riyadh for example? actually, okay, you said you're not going into the basically your customer is not a B2C, so it's not someone really working on their laptop in their daily jobs, but someone in the government maybe in Amsterdam or in Riyadh or in the UAE.
Shareef (14:09.43)
Yeah. So these kind of contractual agreements that we would have would be more for long term data storage and accessibility to such data would be on the premise that they experienced permanent data loss on Earth. Think of it as a redundancy layer. So the there would be no requirement to access such data on daily basis.
However, would be updating the data periodically based on the customer's requirements. So let's say, for example, the UAE government would like to update their data every quarter or every six months, a new batch of data would be uplinked every so often to keep that data update application achieved. of course, there are other applications that we can high discuss during this meeting and
Data doesn't necessarily have to only come from Earth. Data can also come from space. And today we are witnessing hundreds of terabytes of data being generated primarily by Earth observation satellites. So that's another application that we're also tackling. To receive such data from various companies that are capturing images, we can store it, process it on their behalf, and then only the processed data would be downlinked to the end user.
Mizter Rad (15:34.796)
Hm. So for example, those data so those Earth observation centers, how are they doing that right now? Are they sending all the data, the raw data down to Earth, processing it on Earth and then sort of like distributing it here already?
Shareef (15:50.668)
Yes. So it's pr currently process is downlinked unprocessed. Of course, now with the advancements in technology, some companies are electing to do some processing on board their satellites, but not everyone is doing it. so ultimately this whole process, there's a huge room for improvement and optimization whereby we don't have to downlink the entirety of the data set since it's unprocessed. You don't know what you need and what you don't need. So we process it in space.
And then only the selected data we send it down, which optimizes the entire process, saves the company money and time.
Mizter Rad (16:29.28)
Okay, I see. I see. All right. So as far as I understand, the first batch or the first let's say focus of the company, Madari space is storage only, for security reasons mainly, for governments and countries and then you will send data up or down only in some cases where the country requires it, but it's not like a constant every second up and down kind of data transfer.
Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay, so yeah, go ahead, please.
Shareef (17:04.022)
In the future, the average Joe would be have a have the ability to uplink their pictures and files as well into space. I this is definitely some of the applications that we would be able to offer in the future. So you can simply download our application, and through this application, you can upload your images, your files that you would like to store in space. and through that application, you'll be connected either directly to the satellite for uplink.
Or via the ground station to uplink the data. But this is not part of our first mission, however, it can be part of future missions.
Mizter Rad (17:42.862)
So is this something that like go taking that note that you just mentioned, is this something that makes you different from what Elon Musk talks about? because you're more focused on this data storage and sovereignty of data as opposed to sort of replacing data centers for the daily user of the internet?
Shareef (18:09.592)
I believe Elon Musk right now he is focusing primarily on AI, supporting his AI businesses and infrastructure expansions. just like you know Google and Blue Origin through Jeff Bezos' leadership, they're all focusing today on AI and AI infrastructure, whereby we are focusing initially on
Data sovereignty, data redundancy against you know, permanent data losses on Earth due to weather events, war, cybersecurity, and so on and so forth.
Mizter Rad (18:52.81)
I see. I see. Let's switch gears a bit and start and talk about sustainability because I think the sustainability case is important. 'Cause when most people hear data centers, they don't immediately think the environmental crisis happening here on Earth because of data centers. but you clearly do and that's why you started this company. Why are terrestrial data centers such a big issue for the regular Jay Joe and Jane out there that does
Have no idea about this space. Why? And then at the same time, why is space actually a likely good solution and not just like escape?
Shareef (19:34.2)
Well, today terrestrial data centers pose significant threat to our environment, mainly because of the energy requirements to keep them cool. we are seeing some companies who are exploring putting them underwater to in an attempt to resolve this cooling issue, however, that poses additional implications as well, both environmental as well as security. as you briefly mentioned.
Previously it's very energy intensive require requires a lot of water for cooling and one point about the water used once it has been used there's no way to re-recycle this water is complete considered completely wasted so you can't even recycle it for any other applications or for let's say for instance make it drinking water that's not possible and of course adding to all that
The carbon emissions. For me, it was a big shock when I learned that the global network of data centers, and I believe today we have we are getting close to 12,000 data centers, they emit more carbon than the entirety of airline industry, which is completely shocking. Every I believe there's an airplane taking off and landing, I would say, every 10 seconds across the globe. And still
Data centers are emitting more carbon than airline operations, which is quite alarming. I believe that the time to raise the red flag and come up with alternative solutions is today rather than you know later. and which is why we're seeing more and more companies today are exploring this solution. and I'm very happy to see companies such as Google and Starlink.
Exploring such solutions because it gets gives the validity to what we're trying to build. I remember when I when I first launched the company, every single person I spoke to told me don't do it. And you know when naturally when the first thing I did of course when I first launched the company is try build a team. So I started reaching out to my friends from back in college who are today working in various companies across the United States.
Some in Lockheed Martin, some in Bo Boeing, and so on and so forth. And all of them, with no exception, told me not to do it. It's a bad idea. Right. It will not work. Yeah. Besides the online comments that you come across, especially after my Bloomberg interview last summer, you always get the naysayers, and you were rightful rightfully mentioning the fact that how people were against.
Mizter Rad (22:02.232)
Yeah.
Shareef (22:25.336)
Home computers, the internet, you'll always get the negative impressions highlighted more than the positives, which is natural, I think, in the in the process of creating something new, something that is perhaps considered unorthodox to the average end user, you will get the a resistance.
But that shouldn't be a reason why to quit. You know, you just have to keep pushing through as long as you're a big believer in the solution.
Mizter Rad (22:59.714)
Yeah. Tell me something, now that you mentioned that of course in space you wouldn't need water because space is cold and you don't need the water to cool the systems, the data centers, the machines. how about energy? Do you do you need could you use solar energy in space for you know running the machines basically?
Shareef (23:24.08)
Definitely you can use solar. However, I would like to circle back to your previous comment about cooling, which is a huge misconception. I believe that cooling is still a challenge in space. Mainly because you're you're operating in a vacuum environment. You know, space is a harsh environment. we're not meant to be there. Not us, not our hardware. so we have to develop work around how to make our hardware survive.
Just like we are making our astronauts survive, without all the technology that we're building, astronauts won't survive a single day in space. And it's the same goes to our hardware. in a vacuum environment, heat does not move the same way. So you have to dissipate the heat in special ways. right now we are working with various heat pipes to dissipate the heat into the outer space. that would help us with the cooling.
Requirements. But besides the hardware solutions, we're also exploring software applications to optimize our processing requirements, whereby we don't necessarily need to maximize our processing capabilities in an attempt to reduce the heat being generated. so of course these are various solutions that are part of our R&D today that we are exploring and
We'll be ready for our first mission next year.
Mizter Rad (24:55.596)
What are the kind of things that you're gonna test in that first mission? What would be your ideal case scenario after you land back or you take back whatever results you wanna take from that first mission?
Shareef (25:09.266)
So definitely the transfer of the heat dissipation, how efficient it was in terms of our thermal analysis and our own calculations compared to reality. definitely the impact of radiation on our hardware, which we already have a clear understanding of what could happen to our hardware.
With the level of radiation exposure that is expected during our mission. We're in fact planning a radiation test campaign in April in about 10 days from today in Switzerland. So we're we're planning to rent out a radiation test facility to test our data storage components. And this definitely would help us better understand the impact of radiation on various components that we're planning to use and help us prepare more importantly
To potential failures in space. So these are some of the applications that we're planning to test, in addition to various software solutions as well as AI modeling in space.
Mizter Rad (26:21.254)
Well, j I just wanna like paint a picture here to myself and also to the listeners. What happens to the hardware when it's exposed to this kind of radiation? Does it burn or what happens exactly?
Shareef (26:32.21)
So basically you can jeopardize the safety of your data because any exposure to radiation, of course, that would lead to damage to the hardware, which would result in permanent data loss. And this is why we need to ensure that we first of all understand what is our limit, how far can we push our hardware to radiation exposure.
And what are the mitigation actions that we can come up with in terms of shielding, in terms of software, and so on and so forth?
Mizter Rad (27:08.908)
Hmm. It's interesting because you mentioned Switzerland, and Switzerland has this reputation of being very a secure heaven for finances, let's say, or for high worth assets. and I wanna make the parallel because you wanna be the
Center or at least as a startup, I'm I'm not sure the UAE as a country, but you at Madari Space as a startup, you wanna be the Switzerland for basically data. And you taking that data of your customers and putting them on in orbit. And of course that's a challenge, but it's also very exciting. And I wanna understand when you say you want to store that data, you wanna make that data sovereign and help countries do that.
What kind of data are we talking about? What does that actually mean? Because when I was researching for this conversation, I stumbled upon a very interesting case that we actually talked about before in this podcast and it's Estonia. Estonia is one of those miracles in Europe that is very advanced technologically, very forward thinking.
They collect even like DNA data and genetic data from their population. And so it's a lot of data storage that they have to handle. And I understand that they do it in inter in their territory, but also they use Luxembourg as a sort of like a backup, let's say. In that case, if you have Estonia in front of you, why should they
Shareef (28:43.16)
Yes.
Mizter Rad (28:50.68)
Come to you? What kind of data can they store there? Why should they come to you instead of Luxembourg, for example?
Shareef (28:57.006)
The prime the overarching solution that we offer by building data centers in space is the complete independence from terrestrial infrastructure. their data storage solution in Luxembourg still remains attached to terrestrial systems. And even today the UAE, given the current situations that is occurring, the UAE government is storing data in Sweden as part of
Data embassy initiative to provide r resiliency and business continuity. So the overarching problem remains there. And that is all these data centers, whether they are in Sweden, Luxembourg, or any other country, they still remain dependent on terrestrial systems, which means they are vulnerable to extreme weather events, they're vulnerable to cyber attacks, they're vulnerable to war.
Which doesn't really solve the problem, it just delays it. by moving the data to space as a fail-over layer or you know as a perhaps third or fourth copy of what you have on Earth, this provides you the assurances that you need as a government, because can you imagine what could happen to an economy if you lose an entire national data set? A lot of talks were discussed about 9-11. Had the attackers
Flew flown into data centers instead of the World Trade Center, that could have had a much bigger impact on the American economy than flying into the Twin Towers. And it's it the same goes to the National Archives of Estonia or the UAE. But when it comes to what type of data, for example, central banks. So for example, one of the first approvals that the UAE gave to store data in Sweden
Was for the central bank in the UAE. They give them a one-month waiver to store data outside of the UAE jurisdiction. As you know, when it comes to data sovereignty and dealing with sensitive and critical government data, there's a lot of policies and regulations in place that would limit you from managing such data outside the jurisdiction of the country. And by such
The government gave a one-month waiver to use Sweden as a safe territory to store that data. But it goes just it goes beyond central bank information. It also includes medical records, you know, national ID passport numbers, you name it, the list goes on and on. and that's just the government side. You've you've also got the private sector, large corporations.
That are dealing with massive number of or amounts of data. Look at the stock market, for example. That alone, if the data gets wiped off, can you imagine the impact on investors? it's
Mizter Rad (32:04.778)
It's unprecedented. It has never happened actually, as far as I understand. Not that big at least.
Shareef (32:10.274)
Yeah. And unfortunately today with what's happening between the US and Iran, we're seeing Iran targeting data centers across the region. We're seeing the impact imp on Google data centers, IBM, Microsoft, and the issue goes back to the foundation of being dependent on terrestrial data centers. and that's exactly why we
We are offering such services from space.
Mizter Rad (32:42.336)
Hmm. Okay, but let's say a data center on Earth it gets hit or it gets attacked or hacked. you can send a security team and in two hours they're there. but what happens when it happens on in orbit above our heads in space? How would exactly that work? You cannot really send a security team or a team of repairers to just go there and fix it fast. That's a big difference.
Shareef (33:10.872)
Of course, yeah, definitely. And that's the reason why we plan to have a constellation. So rather than just having a single point of failure, we are distributing the data across an entire constellation whereby if a single data center is b damaged or for example on a trajectory to impact a space debris, then definitely the data would be autonomously migrated into a safer
Data center in space. So we will not require the input of humans to take care of such data. It will all be autonomous, software enabled solutions that would ensure the safe operations of our or management of our data in space.
Mizter Rad (33:58.158)
So when you say constellation, you mean like it's it's sort of like decentralized, many boxes around the space and they all have the same kind of data?
Shareef (34:08.494)
It depends, but definitely we'll have copies in space. Absolutely. Yeah. And they will all be interlinked using laser comm systems. So we'll be communicating space to space. So each data center in this constellation will be in touch with each other. There will be communication ongoing. But at the same time we'll be communicating space to Earth. So the way we communicate with our ground stations will also be using
Laser in addition to of course radio frequency.
Mizter Rad (34:41.174)
Do you have to pay some sort of rent on a monthly or yearly basis to occupy that space? I know it might sound like a stupid question, but it's kind of funny 'cause you're like for free there, basically. I mean I know it's a lot of investment to get there, but you're not paying anyone, right? To be there.
Shareef (35:02.282)
Our revenue model basically will be terabyte per terabyte per month. So we will be charging our customers for how much data they plan to store on a monthly basis. That's that's our revenue model. in addition to other subscription.
Mizter Rad (35:19.961)
Like any cloud service right now, for example.
Shareef (35:22.474)
Exactly, yeah, definitely.
Mizter Rad (35:24.28)
Okay, but you as a company, you don't pay anyone to rent the space, kind of no. No. Okay. So and okay, so let's go back to that because I'm imagining okay the bunch of boxes there storing data and copies of data and so on. I'm just putting it in very simple terms so that people understand. But I see that ha like who takes who is the shipping company basically?
Shareef (35:52.424)
So this is actually one of the bottlenecks that not just us, but I think the entire space community is facing, because today everybody's talking about SpaceX. and we cannot continue with only having SpaceX as a single point of failure. Although they are very successful, they're doing a great job, but we cannot rely on just one company. Given you know what we're seeing today, it's always a good idea to have
A backup of a backup of a backup. So and thankfully we are seeing a lot of companies emerging in Europe and India as well as the Far East with launch solutions. so today, for example, we are in touch with the Korean company, we're in touch with the Chinese company, French as well.
Mizter Rad (36:45.09)
They're they're the competit they're a competitor of SpaceX, basically they're your shipping company. You wanna bring something to space and they bring it for you, basically.
Shareef (36:54.22)
Yes, yeah, absolutely. So in particularly there's one Chinese company that I would say are the biggest competitor to space to SpaceX, because they provide the launch service in addition to telecommunication services as well. So they compete against SpaceX and they compete against Starlink, which you don't find quite often in this market.
Yeah. A lot of the startups are focusing only on the launch services. but this company in particular, they're providing both and they're quite they're doing quite a good job and we can expect to hear a lot from them by twenty seven.
Mizter Rad (37:34.759)
When you say launch service, what is that? The shipping service
Shareef (37:38.19)
Yeah, the rockets basically to get your pay to speed, yeah.
Mizter Rad (37:43.19)
Okay, does this become a geopolitical matter as well at some point? Because I understand that okay, so SpaceX from the US, they're kind of leading the space, but then China comes, offers the same kind of service, maybe with an upgrade, maybe cheaper. and so who do you choose? Because, like you say, you're talking about sensitive data here. So you wanna go with the with the
Maybe with the cheapest and best option, but at the same time there may be some political matters to take into account.
Shareef (38:19.798)
Yeah. Well I as a startup and especially as a startup that comes from a very diplomatic and I would say neutral country, we're we're we're doing business with everyone. There are no restrictions to who we're doing business with. I've seen companies in the UAE launch with SpaceX and at the same time I know a university based here in the UAE that launched with a Chinese company. so, until today, there are no restrictions on how we do business. and I think this is how it will continue for the foreseeable future.
Mizter Rad (38:59.756)
I found it super interesting when I was studying your case. I read a bit about China's Belt and Road Initiative. forgot the name, the specific name now. Just this super mega project that China is wants to connect you know, Asia with the Middle East or this the Silk Road, exactly. the West Asia yeah.
The Gulf regions and then Europe. And so I thought it was just a highway kind of thing, you know? But then I realized there's also a space component actually. Yeah. Satellites, GPS alternative to the GPS, American GPS system. wow. I f I was impressed. I didn't know that. That's amazing.
Shareef (39:47.406)
Yeah, I mean I actually just came from Beijing four weeks ago almost. and I've I've witnessed incredible things that they are working on. we're we're already seeing the advancements that they've achieved with the cars, electric cars specifically. we can expect the same when it comes to robotics as well as the space industry. they're moving quite fast. they have no shortages of manpower.
And you know, I believe they are a good partner to have strategically, and it's something that I'm exploring with them.
Mizter Rad (40:25.368)
Very interesting. There's something I find fascinating about the data sensitivity and data management. And as you know, I live between Europe and Riyadh. And in Europe I spent a lot of time in my last decade or so. And they have this thing called the GDPR. Yeah. and for audio for our audience that does that doesn't know about this, GDPR is basically the Us rule that says
In Europe we controlled the European personal data and it lives here and we accept or know who can touch it. And that law was written, of course, for this planet and it applies for the earth. But what happens when you take the data into orbit, like outside of you know the planet?
Does that actually help your case or does it go against you?
Shareef (41:30.56)
So, as you know, the actual concept of data centers in space hasn't really been commercialized yet. It's a completely new concept. and as you can imagine, the policies and regulations related to such activities are still in their infancy. We have still a long way to go to develop such legal framework to
First of all, enable us as data center operators in space to run our business, but at the same time protect the end user by storing their data and managing it right in space. But I believe that through various architectures and implementation philosophies that we can imp integrate on board, that would facilitate the development of such frameworks.
For example, we are looking into zero trust architecture, zero knowledge proof as part of our overall cybersecurity solutions. So even though we have your data, we have no access to it and we don't know what is it. right. So that protects you as a as a data owner in terms of data management in space.
Mizter Rad (42:50.678)
Hmm, does it work a bit like blockchain?
Shareef (42:55.394)
It's a good thing you mentioned this — We are working with the a layer one blockchain provider to integrate their solutions as part of our cybersecurity you know framework.
Mizter Rad (43:10.294)
Mm.
Shareef (43:11.032)
So it's all infused as part of the package that we plan to deliver to our end customer.
Mizter Rad (43:18.538)
Interesting. I interview a lot of innovators and forward thinkers like yourself and recently I had a scientist, synthetic biology expert, and he talks about cloning yourself. So I know cloning is not legal, it's not well seen, but he says technically we could already try to clone ourselves. And he says that in the future you can
In very simple words, you can save your genomic data, and in fifty years when cloning is accepted and morally okay, you'll be able to sort of a twin of yourself will be able to be born again. So he says not only I want to store my genomic data and my s my maybe mother cells and so on
But I also want to store my money and my other assets digitally, for that twin that will be born fifty years from now.
Shareef (44:31.124)
I don't know if that's worth it.
Mizter Rad (44:33.366)
Yeah, sure. But okay, but if we talk about like maybe Bitcoin or so something like that, maybe that makes sense. But I'm trying to put this on the table because I want people to understand that as we become a bit more digitally entangled, as our lives become more digitally entangled, or as digit the digital life becomes more and more ubiquitous, all this the data management
Data processing and the security of this data it'll it'll become s such a big topic that is I mean only by you just have to see the c the amount of money that is flowing into the industry to understand how important this is.
Shareef (45:20.483)
Yeah.
Mizter Rad (45:22.038)
I want people to understand that it is it is very important. When you see these trends and these money flows and you're in the industry of data centers and data management and so on, do you think the industry is going towards centralizing and building huge gigantic data centers or rather modular, smaller regional data centers?
Shareef (45:50.784)
In my view, I think the latter is the optimum approach. Yeah. and it goes with our philosophy of building constellation in space rather than just one big centralized data hub in space where you know it can fail and jeopardize the entire data set that we're storing. So I'm a big believer in having decentralized business model.
Distributing the risk across our assets. So if case in case a single node is damaged or destroyed for whatever reason, the rest of our operations still functions safely and securely. So it falls under our business continuity philosophy as well, where we're avoiding a single point of failure. That's basically it. And it goes beyond just our constellation design but it also goes to
How we plan to, for example, launch our constellation. We don't want to just depend on SpaceX. We want to explore other options in Europe, India, and China as well. It goes into procuring various components and so on. We can't, for example, just focus on NVIDIA. what if something happens to NVIDIA tomorrow and they go bankrupt for whatever? I don't think they will bank go bankrupt, but whatever could happen to it. Right. Yeah. You know, you always need to have contingency plans.
This is for the sake of your success, for the sake of comforting your investors, and of course to ensure your business continuity as you scale your business in the future.
Mizter Rad (47:32.526)
Okay, look, I hate to take you off track here, but I remembered that I had this guest long time ago in my podcast called Daniel Sachs, he's from the Canadian Space Mining Corporation. Okay and he made a point that stayed with me. He said that the extreme constraints of space, the temperature, the radiation, you were talking about that before, the total absence of resources, the void forces engineers to invent more efficient solutions that
Then come back to Earth and solve problems here. And I think a lot of people don't don't don't get to think about that. Because you may think, why are we spending so much money? Because this operations are too expensive. Why are we investing so much money in something that seems so far away? Or whatever. But GPS technology was invented through this process, MRI technology, a lot of technology, maybe also water filtration systems, I believe. All
Born from space constraints. And that really was something I learned from that conversation. Do you see the same thing happening with data infrastructures? Does building for the harshest environments imaginable teach us how to build better systems here on the ground?
Shareef (48:54.356)
Absolutely. And not just here on the ground, but in the future on the surface of the moon. I think low Earth orbit is just a stepping stone until we explore deep space, cis lunar economy, and the lunar surface eventually. I mean the moon is a natural satellite that we can take advantage of. And if we can place our data centers there, of course it will require a lot of R and D and a lot of technological advancements.
But the starting point is low Earth orbit.
Mizter Rad (49:29.376)
What do you mean the moon is a natural satellite? What do you mean by that?
Shareef (49:33.448)
It's already orbiting our Earth. We can place assets on the moon that we can use for data center operations.
Mizter Rad (49:47.928)
When you say we place assets on the moon, you mean we anchor — we sort of dig and build a foundation to anchor hardware there?
Shareef (49:59.566)
Definitely — I would imagine, especially if you hear the ambitions Jeff Bezos has, to move our industries into space. and the moon looks like a valuable location we can take advantage of, especially if we plan to use it to help us reach in the future to Mars. So there are various resources that could help us to achieve such dreams.
And when it comes to taking advantage of the lunar surface, data will definitely be part of it. You need to be able to manage the data, and this as a result would require you to build data centers on the surface of the moon.
Mizter Rad (50:45.676)
What's happening now with the UAE's involvement in the Artemis project? 'Cause I know that this is happening very soon. Do you know about it?
Shareef (51:00.29)
Yeah, definitely. So basically today we are part of Gateway and the UAE will be building the airlock on board gateway. so it's an ongoing project, there's a lot of engagement between the UAE government and NASA to ensure successful execution of this project.
Mizter Rad (51:23.288)
Gateway is the name of the project.
Shareef (51:25.523)
Gateway is the station that they're planning to yeah, to orbit the moon.
Mizter Rad (51:32.384)
And when you say you're taking care of the airlock, you mean the airlock is like the door between the rocket and space?
Shareef (51:45.514)
It's basically a transition room between your space station and space.
Mizter Rad (51:55.64)
That's really exciting. Are you involved in this in any way as a company or not really?
Shareef (52:00.938)
No, we're not — at least not yet. But I mean in the future once data gets involved and data processing and data storage perhaps onboard gateway or maybe the surface of the moon, then that would be a good opportunity for us to get involved.
Mizter Rad (52:18.744)
I guess it benefits you as a private company in the UAE that your country builds that kind of rank and reputation, to be out there with the big boys, let's say.
Shareef (52:30.008)
Of course. It's a testament, first of all, to the future growth and trajectory of the space sector, which is positioned to reach more than a trillion dollars in market value. so there's continuous growth. We will need more and more companies to participate in ensuring the development of much needed technologies. the UAE as a as a nation.
And its involvement in the space sector has been phenomenal over the past 10 years. And today we're seeing more incentives by the UAE government to push this private sector to get involved as well. From the development of space economic zones to various incentives and financial support schemes. That all comes in and supports the space ecosystem.
Mizter Rad (53:30.252)
What are the space economic zones? That sounds interesting.
Shareef (53:34.25)
It's basically various clusters across the UAE where, as a private company, you can set up your space company. it gives you the commercial license, it gives you the legality to operate as a space entity.
Mizter Rad (53:53.92)
Interesting. Very interesting. Shareef, I always like to ask my guests how they see the world in fifty years, like in the next five decades, let's say. I know it I'm not I'm not trying to get a guess from you. It's very hard to already tell what's gonna happen next year, but from your perspective, how is that relationship between humans and space looking like in the next five decades?
Shareef (54:23.362)
I think we will definitely see space become more and more of a primary sector that we rely on. So it's not just a matter of space exploration, but it's also for operations, for obtaining resources, and definitely data centers will play a big role of it in this whole ecosystem.
Mizter Rad (54:46.668)
Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. look, Shareef, it was a pleasure to have you here. I want to know from you what can people do if they're interested in the space? Maybe younger people or people that want to shift their careers, or people that are wanting to deploy money in the space. What are those opportunities that you see out there?
Shareef (55:16.066)
Well today we're seeing, number one, the launch industry is one area picking up a lot of interest from both the private and public sectors. We're seeing a lot in Europe.
Mizter Rad (55:29.982)
That's the sp like the SpaceX kind of environment.
Shareef (55:33.888)
Yes, definitely. We're seeing a lot in Europe, particularly in India, where there's at least three, four startups that were able to raise Series A and Series B. so there's a lot of attention geared towards the launching industry. second of all, earth observation or remote sensing applications. That's another area which, in my opinion, is the most profitable, you know, when it comes to
Sp commercial space operations. I believe in 2024 alone, 50 new companies launched offering Earth observation services. So this it's a huge business. And of course now today we're seeing the global attention towards data centers in space, which was not the case three years ago. So we're seeing a phenomenal growth in the space industry.
My recommendation, first of all, is for investors — this is something I've experienced myself here in the region — they need a lot of education when it comes to deep tech and space operations. A lot of them are accustomed to fintech, and other low-risk investments, like—
Mizter Rad (56:51.107)
Marketplaces. Exactly. Software as a service, yeah.
Shareef (56:55.83)
Exactly — they're not used to the space industry, which takes a lot of my time and effort to educate them on.
Mizter Rad (57:05.098)
I'm here to help. I'm here to help. Yeah.
Shareef (57:10.706)
So it's just a matter of a mindset shift that we need to support in the region and it will happen. Sooner or later it will happen. Right. especially with what's happening today, and you know, we're seeing a lot of vulnerabilities within our terrestrial systems. I think space is the final frontier for us to rely on as we progress out of the current situation.
Mizter Rad (57:41.482)
Yeah, well — shukran, Shareef, it was a pleasure to have you on the Mr. Rad Show.
Shareef (57:49.08)
Thank you very much. I look forward to future opportunities. I'm always interested in such discussions.
Mizter Rad (57:57.454)
Beautiful humans, as you can see with each one of my episodes, the people building a future are not waiting, they're building it. And in this case, former pilots like Shareef, they're making phone calls, they're starting small startups in Abu Dhabi backed by governments that understood early the high ground of the twenty first century is not military, it is digital and it is orbital.
Until next time, beautiful humans, stay curious, question everything, and maybe just maybe start thinking about how or who actually owns your data because pretty soon it might be orbiting above your head, and you will want to know exactly who has the keys. Hasta la vista
Here at the Mr. Rad Show, we provide first-hand information straight from the original source of knowledge. The personal opinions of our guests don't necessarily reflect those of Mr. Rad. This show is brought to you by The Rat House, an unbiased, transparent, agendaless, independent media house. Our theme music is written and produced by Marco Metro.